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Post by Billy (Cardinals GM) on Jan 11, 2011 14:09:15 GMT -5
Cardinals accept.
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Post by dbacksgm on Jan 11, 2011 14:18:53 GMT -5
Im not one to bust peoples balls but I def find this trade to be quite unfair..I'd let it go if Zimmerman had maybe 4 or 3 years left on his contract. Id also prob have no problem with it if we were at the trade deadline and Cardinals were at the top trying to win a championship. We havent even started the season yet.
If the trade passes thats fine with me Im not gonna sulk, really doesnt even bother me that much to begin with..but I just figured Id throw this out there basically for the integrity of the league.
I veto this trade...lopsided in favor of the Nationals
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Post by Brian (Blue Jays GM) on Jan 11, 2011 14:19:24 GMT -5
Veto
I feel this deal is detrimental to the cardinals ability to compete beyond this season. Zimmerman is a 6th year player and a such can't be retained beyond this season and according to John Sickels' rankings Destin Hood is not even a C prospect. On the other hand Rasmus is a 3rd year player (can be retained for 4 seasons) and his numbers are not far off from those of Zimmerman, plus Miller is an elite prospect who received an A- grade from Sickels (and the cardinals top prospect) and Cox is a strong hitting prospect (B- grade, 3rd overall cardinals prospect). The Cardinals are losing 2 of their 3 best prospects and a younger cost-controlled outfielder who is already extremely productive for a 1-year rental of a good player and a very weak prospect. This exchange puts the cardinals at a severe competitive disadvantage and I don't think the short-term improvement (which isn't much) is worth the extreme long-term detriment to the cardinals competitive ability.
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Post by Brian (Blue Jays GM) on Jan 11, 2011 14:22:22 GMT -5
This trade will be under review until 2:09pm on January 13th. Currently with 2 vetoes, 3 more will be required to nullify the trade.
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angels
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Post by angels on Jan 11, 2011 14:26:39 GMT -5
Veto for the reasons stated. Without Miller i could see this deal as more fair because cox is a top 5 prospect in the cardinals system as well as miller
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Post by franchise22 on Jan 11, 2011 16:29:14 GMT -5
Veto, because you guys didn't pull off such a deal. If it didn't bother you that much why even bring it up. This is weak.
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Post by Brian (Blue Jays GM) on Jan 11, 2011 16:41:28 GMT -5
Nationals and Cardinals, if you don't think the trade should be vetoed you're welcome to state reasons why it shouldn't. However, I don't think getting mad at people for vetoing a deal they think is unfair, even if they didn't take a particularly strong approach to their reasoning, is a constructive way to accomplish what you want. If you think there's good reason not to veto this deal please state it and perhaps you could change people's minds or prevent two more people from vetoing the deal. All I ask is that the dialogue stay constructive so we can keep the peace in this league.
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Post by Billy (Cardinals GM) on Jan 11, 2011 16:50:45 GMT -5
Ryan Zimmerman is a proven major league player. I dont have an amazing team right now and want to add at least one big piece. The prospects that Im offering only have potential right now. They could turn out to be total bust. As for Rasmus, it is hard to give him up but I had to to get the deal done. I have no problem with reworking the deal if it is vetoed.
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Post by franchise22 on Jan 11, 2011 17:37:41 GMT -5
These types of trades happen all the time in baseball. Adrian Gonzalez was just traded to the Red Sox even though he's in the final year of his deal. What did the Padres gets 3 of the top 10 prospects in the Sox system. Maybe you'd say that the Red Sox did it because they can contend right away. Well what about the Oakland A's? A couple of years ago they traded for Matt Holliday. He was in the final year of his deal and there was absolutely no shot at him resigning there because he's a Boris client. Did Oakland have a team that was contending? Probably not. What did they give up? A proven closer in Huston Street and a couple of top prospects in Carlos Gonzalez and Greg Smith. What did Oakland do when they didn't contend with Holliday? They traded him for Brett Wallace. They thought they could compete to start the year but they didn't and they made the neccessary moves when the trade deadline arrived. St. Louis already has Mr. Pujols who is the #1 player in our game. Ryan Zimmerman is at worst the 4th best third baseman in the game and some would say it's a toss up between Wright, Longoria and Zimmerman. With 2 of the top 30 players in our game why can't St. Louis compete? Are we running each others teams? Prospects are just that until they prove something. I didn't think someone needed to explain such moves in a league with such baseball fans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2011 17:41:01 GMT -5
i agree with the nats... cardinals is just doing what they have to do for winning now... nothing wrong w/that
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angels
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Post by angels on Jan 11, 2011 17:43:48 GMT -5
You are getting the number top prospect from his organization, a top 5 prospect in his organization that is ranked #3 to most and on top of that your getting a solid outfielder for 4 more years and all he gets is a 1 year rental. The other prospect involved is irrelevant. I appreciate you standing up for your trade but my opinion stands as clearly a veto-able deal.
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Post by dbacksgm on Jan 11, 2011 18:45:32 GMT -5
Yea Id consider Colby Rasmus and Zack Cox for Zimmerman and Destin Hood is a somewhat legit deal; Id still say its in favor of the Nationals based on Zimmerman only having a year left.
The fact that Nats get Shelby Miller as well doesnt work for me.
I think if this deal goes through thou it opens the door for more lopsided deals in the future, and thats not the type of league im trying to be in. Just because I say I don't really care if it goes through doesn't mean I dont have the right to veto it. Voicing my opinion that its an unfair deal, thats all, and if it goes through then so be it.
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Post by franchise22 on Jan 11, 2011 20:04:27 GMT -5
Good to see that Arizona trading Mark Reynolds for 3 minor leaguers also caused an up roar.
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Post by yellomellojello on Jan 11, 2011 20:07:22 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but I think this trade should be allowed to pass. While it's definitely lopsided, Miller and Cox have yet to play above A ball, making them risky prospects. While Miller got an A-, it's very different from the A- of a guy in the high minors (for fantasy purposes). It should also be remembered that while Zimmerman is only under contract one year, the team that holds him at the end of the year has an advantage in resigning him.
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Ben (Rays GM)
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Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Jan 11, 2011 20:28:42 GMT -5
Alright, I've been considering this one for a while and I think I have to put in a veto. Looking just at Rasmus for Zimmerman, I think the deal would be slightly in favor of the Nationals. Zimmerman is the much better player but we're talking about four years vs one year. If I were in a standard fantasy league and I saw a four for one deal with four guys of Rasmus' caliber for Zimmerman, I dunno about you but I'd certainly think the guy was giving up too much for Zimmerman. And that's more or less what this is. So, if this deal were just Zimmerman for Rasmus I wouldn't veto, but I'd certainly think Nationals got the better out of the trade and I'd be surprised that he didn't have to include a prospect or something. But in this deal, it was Cardinals who threw in prospects, and top guys at that. If Rasmus for Zimmerman already looks to be in the Nationals favor, then the full trade is clearly too much.
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Ben (Rays GM)
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Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Jan 11, 2011 20:31:31 GMT -5
4 vetoes. One more and this trade is cancelled.
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Post by monkeychow on Jan 11, 2011 20:35:53 GMT -5
The issue with this deal is not that it's prospects for current talent, those are typical trades. The problem is that this is one year of Zimmerman for 4 years of Rasmus, as well as a top 25 prospect, which is a massive price to pay. I wouldn't expect Pujols to return that much value. Obviously, if this trade is renegotiated, that's another story.
Veto.
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Ben (Rays GM)
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Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Jan 11, 2011 20:44:23 GMT -5
Five vetoes, that's enough. This trade does not pass.
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Post by Kevin (Guardians GM) on Jan 11, 2011 21:12:44 GMT -5
Just throwing my 2 cents in which is worthless but here it is. It is not a trade I would do or most others would do but I don't think it should be vetoed. Is it lopsided? Majorly but who is to say that St. Louis can't rebuild through other trades or the draft or compete with free agency - team might not be as good but thats the price to pay - so Nats held out for more - can't balme him - St' Louis should have decided the price was too high to pay and looked elsewhere...or wait a year to try and sign him. Tough lesson to learn but should be able to learn it...
...and hey - hit me up for santana - at least he has 6 years remaining - I like those prospects/players - lol (rememebr we are here to have fun)
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Post by Kevin (Guardians GM) on Jan 11, 2011 22:02:11 GMT -5
just for good baseball conversation (again, I think it should not be veoted) but the holiday and gonzalez arguments do not stand up here - yes, in baseball they happen all the time but teams doing that will either sign them or flip them - that can't happen here - next year every team can offer on zimmerman and he goes to highest per year salary - no gaurantee and lets say they try to flip him - again in baseball it happens cause that team knows they have an edge, not here - anyone would be crazy to flip top prospect at trade deadline (unless knowing they will be a playoff team) but then that team is in same position - not knowing if they get him next year. there is nothing to stop one of us from outbidding whatever team had him - no emotions, no city favorites - its all cash and time in this league - ZIMMERMAN in 2012 baby! I'm on that free agent train with a shitload of dough!
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