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Post by Rob (Rockies GM) on Jan 13, 2012 20:08:02 GMT -5
Two young studs - Pineda (and Campos) for Montero (and Noesi).
Who wins?
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Post by Tucker (Padres GM) on Jan 13, 2012 20:18:09 GMT -5
I'm leaning towards Seattle, but thats because i think the have a good amount of SP, and Montero has the potential to be a big time power hitter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 20:31:41 GMT -5
You take the future #1 starting pitcher almost everytime. Yankees win this one.
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Post by Max (Tigers GM) on Jan 13, 2012 20:32:34 GMT -5
good trade for both sides..Yanks get a cost control #2 starter and now have a rational for signing Prince as their DH
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 21:43:45 GMT -5
I would have liked to keep Montero as a Yankees fan...
I think his career will be significantly better than Pineda even though Pineda's not terrible.
Though I like the bottom half of the trade. Campos could be a very good player. I see Noesi filling a Tyler Clippard role in the future, which isn't bad just Campos is better.
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Post by Billy (Cardinals GM) on Jan 14, 2012 0:01:34 GMT -5
I think these moves are moves that needed to be made for both sides. Mariners got some offense and their lineup now looks a lot better. The Yanks get a possible ace to put right behind Sabathia and bolster their rotation which was a major problem coming into the off season.
I see it more as moves that needed to be made then someone winning the trade. Personally for me I would want the Yanks side and get Pineda and Campos. Pineda is a future ace and Campos is a nice prospect who has done very well in the minors so far.
Should be interesting to look back on this one in a few years.
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Post by Zack (Mariners GM) on Jan 14, 2012 0:18:09 GMT -5
campos is really underrated. hes not just some regular throw-in prospect. his upside is huge. i think he tilts this deal towards the yankees favor.
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Post by killinmesmalls on Jan 18, 2012 15:35:47 GMT -5
yanks.....montero wont have the lineup protection that he had in NY but i think he can still be very good but the weaknesses of his defense at catcher and calling the game will be exploited now that he has to play every game...but if just smoak can hit and you have ackley thats a nice trio
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Post by Rob (Rockies GM) on Jan 18, 2012 16:22:07 GMT -5
The potential is there for them to not be terrible.
Ichiro, Ackley, Smoak, Montero, Gutierrez, Carp/Wells, Liddi/Seager, Olivo, and whoever plays short (Ryan? - Ok, maybe not all of them won't be terrible).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 22:12:09 GMT -5
Ackley, Montero, and Smoak. Nice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 23:18:12 GMT -5
i think the first 6 will be be figgins,ackley,ichiro,montero,smoak,gutty....
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Post by drewosborne on Jan 21, 2012 16:39:03 GMT -5
The Yankees win this all the way. Pineda will be a beast and in that stadium win 20 next year if not this year. He'll be a Cy Young candidate while Montero hits .280 in a big park.
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Ben (Rays GM)
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Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Jan 21, 2012 17:08:47 GMT -5
The Yankees win this all the way. Pineda will be a beast and in that stadium win 20 next year if not this year. He'll be a Cy Young candidate while Montero hits .280 in a big park. I don't think you can look at a stat like how many wins a player will get to determine his value to the team. Just because Pineda would win more games with the Yankees doesn't mean he'd be more valuable to the Yankees than he would be to the Mariners. It's easier to get wins with the Yankees than it is to get wins with the Mariners, so you can't count those extra wins as Pineda's contribution to the Yankees - that's the Yankees contribution to Pineda! Likewise, even though Montero might only hit .280 with the Mariners as you say, the fact that it's harder to hit in Seattle doesn't make Montero any less valuable. He's still only so much better than the next best alternative through free agency or whatever other source, so if you want to assume that he'd hit X points better with the Yankees than he would with the Mariners, then you also have to assume that his alternative would hit X points better with the Yankees than he would with the Mariners. Besides, your opponent always plays on the same field you do, so the opposition has the same handicap. You need to adjust for park and team dependent factors when evaluating a player. A player's value shouldn't change significantly when he switches teams. Playing in a hitters park doesn't make a hitter better, and playing with a good offense doesn't make a pitcher better - it just makes their stats better. Their adjusted stats should theoretically be unchanged. I really do think this is a good trade for the Yankees, but it's not because Pineda's gonna get more wins with the Yankees than he would with the Mariners, and it's not because Montero's not going to hit quite as high in Safeco as he would have with the Yankees. |
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Post by angels on Jan 21, 2012 17:45:14 GMT -5
Great point Ben
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Post by drewosborne on Jan 24, 2012 9:17:20 GMT -5
"I don't think you can look at a stat like how many wins a player will get to determine his value to the team. Just because Pineda would win more games with the Yankees doesn't mean he'd be more valuable to the Yankees than he would be to the Mariners. It's easier to get wins with the Yankees than it is to get wins with the Mariners, so you can't count those extra wins as Pineda's contribution to the Yankees - that's the Yankees contribution to Pineda!"
We know this but the MVP/CY voters really have no clue.
My point being wins was he keep the Yanks in more games than an alternative thus allowing for the team to get him more wins as he provides more opportunities for them. I haven't changed my thoughts on him as a player, he would have won 16 games in Seattle this year on a horrible team.
It just blows my mind that Seattle is giving pitchers away but they won't trade the one guy who could remake their entire team. Then they end up getting nothing in free agency for him but a comp pick. You traded Fister and Pineda for what? A guy who is supposed to hit in the bigs? He hasn't done it yet, and Fister and Pineda had both shown at the MLB level they could compete. But it's okay, they've got Hultzen, Walker, and that other dude. The attrition rate among prospects that pitch is awful. KC is a perfect example. 3 of the best pitching prospects in baseball last year and everyone is like Danny who? this year.
Point is Jack Z is gambling BIG TIME and I don't think it'll pay off. But I'm not the GM and who cares if pitching is gold in this game.
And let's not forget about the sure thing Justin Smoak.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 10:28:25 GMT -5
This is simply a great trade for the Yankees because they filled a huge void with their pitching rotation, and have a better catching prospect in Sanchez as a defender, so they could afford to part with Jesus.
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