Post by Jon (Astros GM) on Aug 7, 2015 16:30:22 GMT -5
As I'm sure some or most of you know, we may have a new Nats GM prior to our draft tomorrow. Does anyone have an issue with someone stepping right in and drafting before our draft without having been around this league and format for a while to get an idea how we do things?
My issue with this has two points. One, someone coming in has no draft board or any time to legitimately prepare for the draft. Two, the new GM is Ben's brother and, right or wrong, I think he will be going to him for suggestions on who to take in each spot. I don't think this is collusion, but I do feel it isn't right to have someone else telling someone else who they should be taking.
In closing I just feel that he should have some time to get adjusted to our league and time to figure out his roster. I know ideally he should have the right to make his own selections, but 18 hours before the draft starts doesn't scream that he is prepared. Also, I'd like to point out that I do hold the 2nd pick and have more to gain than anyone here. I don't want to hide that fact. I would welcome him with open arms in the offseason, just not now.
Post by Chris (Former Cubs GM) on Aug 7, 2015 16:59:33 GMT -5
Sorry man but I don't really see a problem with getting a new GM in before the draft. I 100% can understand your frustration of potentially losing Moncada. Realistically it woulda been just as unfair for Moncada to slip to #2 just because of how our missing GM draft rule is. I can see how a new GM may not be prepared for later rounds but anyone who gets into this league is surely qualified to make the #1 overall pick. It won't hurt my feelings no matter how it shakes out but I'm not opposed to bens brother or anyone else getting in and starting their reign with a draft
Post by Jon (Astros GM) on Aug 7, 2015 17:04:54 GMT -5
I understand that completely Chris. But what if we made a deal this morning. I was debating considering seeing what might happen. How would you feel then if we did? Just it is what it is?
Post by Jon (Astros GM) on Aug 7, 2015 17:50:22 GMT -5
I regret posting this. In all honesty, it doesn't matter. What's done will be done regardless of what's said. Let's just welcome him to the league and get on with the draft. I just wish we started it a week ago when we usually do. I'm done trying to explain myself.
Post by Brian (Blue Jays GM) on Aug 7, 2015 18:51:07 GMT -5
If anyone has an issue with the way this is being done please let us know. This is NOT decided yet and if anyone feels things are being handled unfairly then I will not allow it to take place.
Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Aug 7, 2015 19:16:03 GMT -5
I absolutely do appreciate Jon's concerns here. I do apologize that he'd be joining so soon before the draft. I know all of you have put a lot of work into figuring out your draft boards and I realize that bringing in a new member right before the draft is a bit of a twist, especially considering what a strong position the Nationals have in the draft. My brother expressed an interest in joining a few weeks ago, but said he'd probably wait until the offseason since he's starting business school in the fall and wanted to see how the first semester went. However, I didn't realize until Max pointed out to me on Tuesday night that Rob had been MIA for two months, and I figured maybe he'd be interested in joining sooner (especially since after the draft there's nothing big until FA this winter). I emailed my brother Wednesday about taking over the team but he's been in Vermont with limited internet access and I didn't hear back from him until today. I do believe we mentioned in the chat box that we were looking for a replacement, so I don't think this is a complete surprise, but given that the other option was to autopick for the Nationals, I can see how it would throw people off, and I apologize for leaving you in limbo for so long, especially you who had the second pick Jon.
Everyone really should feel free to express any concerns they have. If other people have concerns say so and we'll put the Nats on autopick and my brother can join in the offseason.
Post by Kevin (Guardians GM) on Aug 7, 2015 19:54:03 GMT -5
I understand the frustration and I'm not big on changes during the season in any league and without votes (hate the scalp thing too for that) but maybe there is a compromise?
Who knows if Nats is even going to sign in right before the draft? Maybe it's autopick until he is put on the skip clocked and then the new GM can take over. The new GM would still have a great first pick with auto pick and the next (as I think it's two missed picks to be clock skipped) and then gets to show the league what he can do with the rest of the draft. Even if he came on offseason, those two picks would be auto picked anyway (along with the rest) but then he at least gets a chance to do what he wants with the rest of them.
Otherwise, I would prob have to lean towards offseason as lots of teams have put their time in this season already and a change this quick is unfair and any team coming in later would have the auto drafter prospects anyway.
Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Aug 7, 2015 20:48:04 GMT -5
Kevin, I see your point about scalp round (which is why a poll was added, albeit a little late - we may have handled that a little sloppily, but the league did vote in favor of it). But adding new GMs prior to and during the draft is nothing new. New GMs join throughout the season - it's not ideal, but it's just the reality. The trade deadline, the draft, and free agency have always been prime times for new GMs to enter, because those are the times when absences become the most obvious, and active GMs are the most necessary. The fact that the Nats own the number one pick ought to make it even more imperative that we find a new GM. That team gave up valuable pieces to acquire that pick, and for them to have to settle for anything less than the best available player makes that an unbalanced trade. If a new GM (whether my brother or somebody else) were to join as the Nationals this winter and discovered that the Nationals could have had Moncada (or Rodgers or Bregman or Tate or whoever) but had to settle for second best because other GMs blocked it, I think they'd be rightfully upset about it. Autopick is something we do out of necessity - it's a last resort, not something we should force on a team when there are other better options.
Post by Jon (Astros GM) on Aug 7, 2015 20:52:13 GMT -5
Ben, my issue is not with you or your brother. My issue is with timing. To add somebody fresh less then a day before our draft is not fair to the rest of us that put our time in. We have cut offs for everything else in this league. Also, I'd have to imagine he is going to rely on you for help which also isn't fair to the rest of us. If you wouldn't have told him to take Moncada, which I'm sure you did, would he have even known he was able to be drafted? That's why I think it is important to have a few weeks or more to get to know our rules and have the ability to do research, which he can't do. A lot of us have friends around the league and bounce things off others. You can ask Brian how often were bouncing things off each other. It helps to learn the rules on who is available and whatnot. Obviously I am the one affected by this and that's why I am being the most vocal. I start the day thinking I'm going to take one guy and end it realizing I'm probably not because someone else is going to join between now and the draft and was probably told you should take Moncada, that's what I would do. I can accept if no one else feels the way I do. But I couldn't sit back and not voice my opinion.
Post by Kevin (Guardians GM) on Aug 7, 2015 21:02:52 GMT -5
If someone see's it as other GMs blocking it vs being fair, then that's their issue. One could argue that they could also like coming in to a league that is fair and looks at all issues.
If you are going to argue against opinions, then why bother asking for them.
Opinion was asked and it was given. I'm not here to argue the merits of it and I don't think you need to counter it. I could bring up arguments against your points too but that is not the purpose of this thread.
If you are going to argue against opinions, then why bother asking for them.
At the end of the day this is going to be Brian's call. I'm removing myself from the decision making process here, since I'm invested in the outcome. As such, I think I have a right to make my case.
For what it's worth, if we didn't allow new GMs to join during the draft, Smitty and Nick wouldn't be members of this league.
Post by Jon (Astros GM) on Aug 7, 2015 21:55:50 GMT -5
That's fine. Then open up a new vacancy thread like usual and have people apply. Take the time to find someone, and then decide. You haven't even done that yet. We have had a couple people say they may have someone interested. We haven't even seen that yet. So all this is just talk and technically we don't have an opening yet.
FWIW re: joining right before the draft - Brian recruited me about a right before the 2012 draft (I think I joined the day of that draft's start) so it's possible to adjust quickly.
I've got no problem with having Ben's brother join even without an open search, but I do so with the expectation that he will be his own man when it comes to taking over the Nats' roster. He may walk right in with the #1 pick handed to him, but that also means he's got quite a bit of work to do to reconstruct that roster which will take considerable effort. I'm more interested to see how he fairs with that task rather than who he takes in the draft.
Post by Brian (Blue Jays GM) on Aug 7, 2015 23:55:05 GMT -5
Ok guys, so I'm in a tough spot with this decision and I don't want to do anything that will harm the league or negatively affect GMs who have been my friends and important members of the pro-gm community for years. I assure you I'm giving this a ton of thought and weighing all angles, I have not and will not dismiss any opinion that is expressed to me. Ultimately, I have to do what I think is best for the league.
In the spirit of doing what's best for the league, I feel I should give you all some transparency on how we got to this point now:
Ben and I didn't realize until tuesday night (when Max pointed it out to us) that the Nats GM had been gone that long. I completely overlooked it when I declared the Red Sox and Pirates vacant, otherwise i would've posted the Nats too. Wednesday morning Ben emailed Rob (the now-former Nats GM) to see if he was still interested in keeping his team and it wasn't until this morning, when we hadn't heard back after 2 days, that we decided to scramble and try to replace him. Ben's brother had expressed interest in joining in the offseason if a team opened up (he's starting business school in september and didn't want to join until after he saw what his workload was going to be) but because of our situation Ben asked if he'd join sooner. Given the time constraint we felt it best to go with a GM we trusted to do a good job in Ben's brother.
We've always given inactive GMs an email to at least encourage them to come back before replacing them, and we followed that same protocol in this situation. Some respond and some don't. It's never been a set amount of time that someone's inactive before we decide to replace them, but we usually look around the peak activity times of the year (before the trade deadline, before free agency, etc.) and determine who has been inactive for a while. As I said above, when we looked before the trade deadline and replaced Red Sox and Pirates, it was a complete oversight that we didn't replace Nats as well.
Post by Brian (Blue Jays GM) on Aug 8, 2015 0:28:56 GMT -5
There seem to be several issues with the situation as it currently stands, and I'd like to give my thoughts on them:
1) The timing of replacing the Nats. As I explained in my previous post, this was due to a complete oversight on my part. This is not a typical situation for replacing a GM and I regret that it came to this and especially that it put out false expectations about what would happen with the #1 overall pick. However, we have replaced GMs just before and even during the draft in the past, and no one complained about it when we did. When we brought in Dan, Nick, Smitty, etc, everyone seemed in favor of having someone control the team rather than autopicking and letting an eventual replacement GM be stuck with whoever was next in the mlb draft order.
2) The fact that it's Ben's brother taking over the Nats. Concerns about this that have been expressed to me privately have ranged from "Ben is telling him who to pick" to "Ben is essentially controlling 2 teams" to even "6 months from now Ben is going to trade for Moncada and swindle his brother...LOL". As far as Ben advising him on who to pick, I know from many conversations with him that Ben's draft research has been extremely limited (he only owns 2 comp picks!) and he is not in a great position to give draft advice past the top pick. That being said, I do a ton of draft research, including aggregating several published sources into a combined ranking, and have advised a number of GMs in this league on their draft picks for years and have even picked players for them when asked. I have offered to advise Jamie (Ben's brother) and encouraged him to seek advice from other GMs as well. I will gladly do the same for ANYONE who wants to know who I think they should pick based on research and published information. As far as any allegations of collusion (Ben controlling 2 teams, Ben making favorable trades with his brother, etc.) I and the other commissioners will be watching this situation very closely and will cancel any move that is deemed to be collusion. I don't anticipate this will even be an issue given Ben's track record of doing things fairly, but with the concerns being raised about it I will be sure to stay on top of it.
3) The fact that the Nats have the #1 pick. The Nats franchise made a fair trade under the previous GM to acquire that pick. There is absolutely no reason why it would be fair to deny the Nats franchise the ability to select who the new GM wants with that pick. As I said above, having a GM in control has always been preferable to autopicking, regardless of what picks the team owns.
Post by Brian (Blue Jays GM) on Aug 8, 2015 0:45:22 GMT -5
Having considered all of the above for quite some time tonight, I think it's clear the best and most fair decision for the league and for the Nats franchise is to have a GM in place for the draft who should have the freedom to execute his draft picks as he chooses (and rest assured he will be making his own choices, regardless of what advice he receives). With apologies and all due respect to Jon, Kevin, and others who expressed their concerns privately (thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention), the Nats franchise shouldn't suffer because of an oversight that led to a poorly timed situation.
Moving forward, Jamie will be the new Nationals GM and we should all welcome him to the league with open arms and open minds. I know him to be a very smart person, and believe he will be an outstanding addition to the league and community.
