Post by Brian (Blue Jays GM) on Jun 23, 2020 11:04:17 GMT -5
Hi all,
It's been a long time since I've spoken to many of you. I hope you are all healthy and safe in this crazy time.
I'm sure you can imagine how tough it's been to come up with any kind of plan for this league to move forward, given the uncertainty of what major league baseball is going to do. Now that they've effectively implemented a 60 game season, I think it's time to let the whole league in on what the commissioners have been discussing:
A changing of the guard
A couple months ago, Ben reached out to the commissioners and let us know he'd be stepping down from his role as the lead commissioner of Pro GM.
I've been playing fantasy baseball with Ben for 15 years now, back since the days of our annual league "The Trading Game". I was thrilled when he approached me and asked me to help him start a dynasty league 10 years ago. We've been through many crazy times and difficult decisions together, but also created some great memories and a league that became a true community. I know what this league means to him and how much of himself he put into it. Now that he and his wife are first time homeowners (congrats again!), his priorities have shifted and he no longer has the time to give this league the effort he knows it needs and deserves. I know I speak for everyone here when I say thank you Ben. This league has had an incredible decade, is one of the best around, and we owe that to your outstanding leadership.
While he is stepping down as commissioner, Ben will stay on as a GM and will still serve as an advisor to the commissioners.
This left some big shoes to fill, but after some discussion behind the scenes, it was decided that I will be taking on the role of lead commissioner going forward. Having served as league co-commissioner and Ben's "second in command" for 10 years, I know his job isn't easy but I'll do it to the best of my abilities.
Me moving up into Ben's role also left my previous role as league Co-Commissioner vacant. I'm thrilled to announce that Jon, Astros GM and NL Co-Commissioner, has agreed to step up as league Co-Commissioner. When Jon joined us in January of 2011, he became an integral part of the Pro GM community, and I'm excited to see him expand his leadership role and make Pro GM even better going forward.
Speaking of going forward, that brings us to...
What does the future of Pro GM look like?
In preliminary discussions, there have been 2 primary schools of thought when it comes to the future of Pro GM. One involves keeping things status quo and the other involves making some big changes.
Idea A - Continue the league as is. We're an established dynasty league, everyone has put a lot of work into building their teams, let's keep it going.
Idea B - Reboot the league starting in 2021. To some of us, 10 years felt like a good ending point to this dynasty league. We all love it and a lot has gone right, but there are some franchises in bad shape that can't hold an owner, there are some rules that over time created a parity imbalance, and there are some teams that have been the same for so long they feel stale. This proposal would mean ending our current league, getting the league full again (30 GMs), holding a draft for which franchise each GM gets (rather than the first come, first served we did at the start of Pro GM), and then starting over with a full offseason of trading, free agents, etc.
I don't want to get into specific rules of the reboot idea just yet, just discuss it in theory. There will have to be decisions on ways of balancing parity so that GMs picking last in the franchise selection draft have incentive to not quit. There will have to be decisions on whether teams get to keep all contracts, choose some contracts, or just keep their cost-controlled talent and prospects to start with. I don't want to get into all of that unless that's what the majority of GMs want
This is an open discussion, everyone gets an opinion and a vote. If you have other ideas, please bring them up. The decision belongs to all GMs. I would like every GM to vote. If you don't vote, then we will assume you don't plan to stay with the league moving forward.
Regards, Brian Blue Jays GM and Pro GM Commissioner
Post by Jon (Astros GM) on Jun 23, 2020 11:57:32 GMT -5
Thanks Brian for the post and update. And thank you Ben for all the years of service and your help in shaping this league to what it is today. No chance we make it here without your leadership.
Also, I’m very gracious in accepting the title of Co-Commissioner of this great league. I’ve been helping out more and more each year and learning just about every aspect of how things run. I didn’t expect this but am very happy to accept. I’ve been able to build great relationships with people here and hope to continue that.
Brian said it best with what our options are moving forward. I look forward to helping to answer any questions also. I, like most are just excited for baseball to return!
Post by Nick (Orioles GM) on Jun 23, 2020 14:36:11 GMT -5
You could also keep as is (choice 1) but add something to help with balance. Extra draft picks, a mini rebalancing draft (like an expansion draft), etc. We’d have continuity but with moves to address balance. A middle ground between two approaches perhaps....
Post by Toy (Braves GM) on Jun 23, 2020 14:53:28 GMT -5
Not a bad idea. I would be down with something like that. Honestly, I voted for 1 to keep as is because I don't want to lose my prospects and young guys I spent the last few seasons acquiring.
Regardless, I echo everyone's sentiments about Ben and Brian. Thanks for all that you do, have done, and will do! I love this league and am excited MLB is back - sort of.
Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Jun 23, 2020 15:11:42 GMT -5
Thanks Brian and everyone else for the kind words.
I've been trying to come up with what to say here. On the one hand it's a little bit emotional and bittersweet, because this league has been an intense labor-of-love for a decade and has meant so much to me during that time. It's been truly incredible to see this vision materialize into such a successful game (and even inspire some other ones!), and for that I have to thank every one of you, from co-commissioners to GMs to emeriti, for making it such a great experience and community. And it's definitely a little bit sad to be stepping back from my leadership role.
Of course, I also don't want this to sound too much like a goodbye. I'm not going anywhere! I absolutely intend to stick around for the long haul and participate in whatever form the league takes next (don't forget to vote!). Yes, I'm at a point in my life where other labors-of-love (new house, family, etc) have to take priority. But I'm so grateful that Brian and the other commissioners reacted so supportively to my decision, and are ready to step up and keep this league going. Because I know that with all the outside responsibilities that come with getting older, fantasy baseball is still going to be a much-needed diversion for me. I'm curious to see where the future takes the league, and I'm eager to keep playing!
Most of all, it's a relief to feel the responsibilities of commissioner lifted off my shoulders, especially knowing how capable my replacements are. I've made it clear to Brian, Jon, Max, Smitty, and Tucker that I'm available to advise and assist in whatever capacity they want me to - and that's going to be totally up to them. I know Brian's leadership is going to be a massive benefit to the league. New leadership means a new perspective, and I'm looking forward to seeing what positive changes he can bring based on what he's seen, heard, and experienced in his role over the last ten years. He, Jon, and the other commissioners have my full confidence to make changes as they see fit.
Thanks everyone for making this league great. Here's to another ten years (and more)!
Last Edit: Jun 23, 2020 15:13:56 GMT -5 by Ben (Rays GM)
Post by Oren (Diamondbacks GM) on Jun 23, 2020 15:21:29 GMT -5
As much as I would love to keep going as is, I Feel so close to having a team that will finally be victorious LOL, I think its best for the league to start over and it will be exciting.
Echo all the words above and Ben, you've done so much for the league and I've enjoyed the many debates we've gotten in over the years. I know its not goodbye which is good, but think its good to share!
Post by Greg (Reds GM) on Jun 23, 2020 16:13:03 GMT -5
While I've spent a few years rebuilding to build a team that's now in its competitive window, I'd be open to change to rebalance/refresh the league (I voted for the "as is" option, FWIW). Perhaps letting teams keep a certain # of major and minor leaguers (particularly for those of us who have patiently held onto prospects now on the cusp of the majors)
Post by Jon (Astros GM) on Jun 23, 2020 18:32:12 GMT -5
I am happy to see such great turnout so quickly and the responses as well. My two cents on the matter. First off I am fine either way we go. We seem to have a pretty even split on both sides. I voted for a reboot of the league for the main reason of wanting a fresh start. Giving teams a new challenge. The hard part for most is walking away from what we have been working on to build up your teams. I can definitely appreciate that and it was hard for me at first to want to do the same. I just felt that I should let everyone know where I stood on the matter and where my personal preference was. As always this league is about all of us and I am so glad to see the turnout. Just shows we have a great community of people and I’m excited to get back to work!
Post by Zac (Former Marlins GM) on Jun 23, 2020 20:43:16 GMT -5
While I voted for a restart since mine is one of the teams that is so far behind - I am open to other ideas that some have mentioned. Like keeping the farm system and just redoing MLB players or whatever. I am fine with whatever direction we go as I know a lot of you have worked really hard in getting your farm systems up. I would love to restart but it doesn't have to be a full restart.
Post by Billy (Cardinals GM) on Jun 23, 2020 20:55:51 GMT -5
I voted for the “as is” option. However, I’d be open to some kind of half re-boot system to help out struggling teams and spread out the talent a bit. I’ve actually been thinking about that as a possibility for a couple of years now as I’ve also noticed some teams are in bad shape. As someone who has been around since the start and has had to slowly build a team up for years now after some poor decisions early on to finally get a somewhat competitive team, I think it’s important to allow GM’s in similar positions to benefit from the hard work they’ve put in. I personally wouldn’t quit the league at all over a full restart, but to be honest it would sting quite a bit to lose guys who just entered the majors in the last year or two and who you have years of control left of when they could be perennial all star players, especially if you made moves specifically to get them. That work should be rewarded under any new system imo. But something absolutely needs to be done to help struggling teams and now would be a perfect time. I think a system where teams could keep a certain amount of prospects, veteran contact players, and cost controlled players would work very well. It would allow teams to keep core players they’ve worked hard to get while also putting a ton of talent back into drafts and free agency. An expanded amateur draft and some kind of cost controlled player draft or another method of dividing up those players not kept could be done in the offseason. It would be a busy offseason but I feel the fresh start would create a lot of buzz, excitement and activity so I doubt it would be a big deal.
And last but not least, thank you Ben for your service to the league this past decade. It always blows my mind how long this league has been going and your efforts have been one of the biggest reasons why. I’m glad you’re deciding to still compete and I look forward to hopefully another decade of competing with you.
Post by Zack (Mariners GM) on Jun 23, 2020 22:03:17 GMT -5
Ben, you've been a tremendous commissioner the past 10 years. The league's success is a testament to all the hard work you've put in. Thank you for your stewardship and congrats to Brian on the well-deserved promotion! Looking forward to competing against both of you for another 10 years.
While I certainly won't be going anywhere regardless of the outcome, I voted for a restart. I think over the years, a few teams have become stuck with competitive disadvantages that can't be overcome without a major redistribution of talent. While its only a small handful of teams like this, in my opinion, it compromises the entire integrity of the league.
I completely understand the other viewpoint from GMs who've spent years building their rosters/farm systems to the points they're at today. If the majority vote to proceed or if we decide an alternative way forward, I'll absolutely be here to compete. But in my view, the full restart has potential to rejuvenate the league in a very positive way. A re-drafting of teams would surely lead to a flurry of action and transactions. And with a stable base of active GMs like we currently have, a re-started league could become even more competitive than this incredible league already is.
Just my 2 cents on it. Enjoying hearing from others and look forward to seeing more ideas. Quick response to this poll gives me great optimism for this league.
Post by Sanjay (Pirates GM) on Jun 23, 2020 23:14:23 GMT -5
First off, I just want to say thank you to Ben and the other co-commissioners for putting in the time to make this league how it is. I've really enjoyed playing in this league relative to other ones and I'm looking forward to the future of it!
I personally voted for a reset as I feel like there's some teams that I can't see being competitive for awhile while there's some teams that are so stacked with talent that it would be impossible to compete with them for a while. While I think a full reset would be really cool as we'd get to see everyone's roster building philosophies, I can also understand that that would diminish the effort some teams have put in over the years to add star talent to their rosters. I think a middle ground could be found through the concept of an expansion draft, where teams could protect a certain number of players (i.e 4 MLB players and 8 MILB players, or 9 players total). That way, if a team has a Trout, Yelich, or Franco, they'd get to keep them but other teams would get the chance to add pretty good players.
A couple other ideas that might increase parity: - Smaller roster sizes (60 instead of 80?) - 4 Round Amateur Draft instead of 8 - Expanded Playoffs - Shorter Cost controlled contracts (4 Years instead of 6?) - Cost Controlled Contracts (1st year - 2 mil, 2nd year - 4 mil, 3rd year - 6 mil, 4th year - 8 mil)
These are just suggestions off the top of my head but I hope that they encourage discussion so we can all help make the league better in the future! It's been great to read everyone's opinions and I hope everyone's staying safe!
Post by Chris (Former Cubs GM) on Jun 24, 2020 8:21:28 GMT -5
For probably close to a decade I’ve checked into this place at least once a day. This league and the people here are incredible. Really appreciate everything you did here Ben. Obviously there is no one better than Brian to keep this thing going forward. Thanks for the 10 years of entertainment.
I voted for a restart. I’m not opposed to staying as is because I really like my team and I’ve turned over every rock to find some of these specs. But realistically I don’t feel like we have enough competitive teams and hopefully a restart will change that. Obviously it will for sure change for the short term but would really like to see stiffer competition across the league.
This league is great. It’s obvious, being one of the newer guys, Ben put a lot of work into this as did everyone who’s been part of the league for most of the last decade. I voted for a restart but mainly because I feel, again as someone newer, there’s fewer competitive teams. There's a bit of an imbalance with long time owners and that could be as simple as them making better decisions earlier on. I believe we’ve only had a handful of new guys come in since I was graciously accepted but the hardest part is when someone new comes in they likely have a different direction they want for their team so if that team was already in bad shape they likely have to make it worse to have a chance at getting better.
With that said though, reading through others replies I’m also not opposed to keeping it as it is. I think in the last 2 years I’ve been part I’ve had one of the worst teams ever created but I’ve also put a lot into taking on this massive rebuild. The team still isn’t where I want it to be, however I believe the work I’ve done and the moves I’ve made have me trending in the right direction and as much as losing sucks I would love to see it through. I have a pretty solid farm system and some guys just starting to come up in the big leagues. A lot of youth that could make this next decade exciting for me. I’m all for whatever the group decides I’m just grateful to be part of such an awesome community of baseball fans.
also this may not be the right time but I’m curious as to what service time will be like this year with that 60 game season! Again probably not the right time but one I believe would be helpful for the league to discuss!
Thanks to Ben Brian and all the other commissioners for all the hard work you all put in daily and have been putting in for the last 10 years, here’s to 10 more!
Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Jun 24, 2020 11:09:13 GMT -5
My two cents:
1. I changed my vote after reading Billy's comment. My original vote was for a reset as I do (still) think the competitiveness of the league needs some serious re-balancing. But the feeling that Toy, Oren, Greg, and Billy have all shared to various degrees, that teams have worked for a long time at rebuilding and that would be for naught if we started over completely, is important to consider, I think. I really liked Billy's way of putting it - it would sting. Especially for teams who are almost there but for whom the effort hasn't paid off yet.
2. But there's still too much disparity between the teams at the top and the teams at the bottom. A full re-set would solve that, and refresh some of the staleness, but I think there are other approaches that would work, too. Nick, Billy, and Sanjay have suggested something akin to an "expansion draft" for all teams. I agree with this solution. See my full proposal below.
3. I think we need to be very careful, and probably avoid entirely, a situation where teams keep X players but otherwise choose a whole new franchise (example: I get to keep Trout, Bregman, and Bellinger but then switch my squad to the Braves). Why? Well, what if the Braves have had a whole bunch of players kept by other teams? If Acuna, Albies, Soroka, Pache, Waters, etc are all being kept by other teams, the Braves don't really look like the Braves anymore either. Some franchises might get decimated. If teams are going to keep X players from their team, I think it has to be an expansion-style draft; in other words, we draft players, not franchises.
4. I also don't like the idea of teams keeping their minor leaguers but re-drafting major leaguers. There are a lot of teams with very barren minors, while others have put all their effort into their farm systems while neglecting their majors. If the goal is to create parity, then having some teams start out with loaded systems while other teams start with basically nothing does not solve that problem.
Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Jun 24, 2020 11:09:18 GMT -5
With all that in mind, my proposal (but I'm just a GM with an idea, not a commissioner! You can ignore me if you like, but old habits die hard and I still love coming up with ideas for things like this) is the following:
1. Choose Keepers - From your current team, you may keep either 3 major leaguers (cost controlled or veteran on their current contract) or 5 minor leaguers - Now, choose again between keeping either 2 more major leaguers or 3 more minor leaguers. So in total you'll have one of the following combinations: 5 major leaguers, 8 minor leaguers, 3 majors and 3 minors, or 2 majors and 5 minors - Keep up to one additional veteran on your choice of either a one-year/$10 million or two-year/$20 million (per year) franchise-tag (see "free agency" below for why I think this is necessary).
In calculating service time, ignore redshirts! So 3B Alex Bregman 2.0 million (4th year) RS18 instead becomes 3B Alex Bregman 2.5 million (5th year). Let the redshirts die. But also, ignore 2020. 2020 doesn't count for a year of service for anybody (regardless of whether or not we play fantasy this season).
2. Expansion Draft Once teams have their keepers, we do an expansion draft (8 rounds?). Cost-controlled players only, you can draft anybody who wasn't kept who has completed at least one year of service. You keep them on their regular cost-control schedule based on real life service time (ignoring 2020!).
3. Amateur Draft 16 rounds? All minor leaguers (0 years of service) who weren't kept are eligible, along with the actual 2020 draft class.
4. Re-Brand! Choose a new team name (probably via drafting, again). When choosing a franchise, consider: 1) what team name do you want? 2) what division do you want to play in, i.e. who do you want your opponents to be? (worth considering - is there anything we can do to rectify the fact that AL West has only 4 teams and NL Central has 6? Yahoo doesn't allow odd-numbered leagues, unfortunately) 3) post-draft adds!
5. Post-Draft Adds Add up to 4 additional cost-controlled players and up to 8 additional minor leaguers from your new franchise's remaining pool. At this point, teams will have up to 45 players (between 5 and 8 keepers, 1 franchise tag, 8 cost-controlled draftees, 16 minor league draftees, 12 post-draft adds). As many as 18 could be major leaguers.
6. Free Agency All unkept remaining veterans and cost-controlled players go to free agency. This will be a massive free agent class with a ton of premier talent. This is why the franchise tag is necessary - it spreads some of that talent out over the next two years instead.
All of this would take a while. But the 2021 season doesn't start for 9 months. What better time to do it?
Other rule changes: - I'd be okay with the idea of contracting to ~24 teams (which would allow for more even divisions) - I agree with Sanjay re: smaller roster sizes. Drop it to 60 - If we're shrinking rosters, might as well have a shorter draft too - I'd prefer not to do expanded playoffs unless MLB does it. 6 per league is already a lot - I don't really like the shorter cost control, although I can see the benefit. Overall I prefer the realism of 6 years. - I do like the idea of cost-controlled players being more expensive. Makes it a bit of a tougher decision as to who to keep. You can't get TOO expensive or else certain types of players (especially relievers) end up hitting FA too early. But maybe something like 1st=0.5, 2nd=1.0, 3rd=2.0, 4th=3.0, 5th=5.0, 6th=8.0
Last Edit: Jun 24, 2020 13:34:24 GMT -5 by Ben (Rays GM)
Post by Ben (Rays GM) on Jun 24, 2020 12:44:07 GMT -5
Less extreme re-draft proposal (sorry I just can't help myself, I love coming up with this stuff):
1. Teams protect 8 players (majors or minors, doesn't matter), the rest become draft-eligible. We complete 2 30-pick rounds (snake style) of "expansion" draft (all 30 teams can pick from the unprotected pool). No single team can lose more than 3 players over 2 rounds (so once a third unprotected Yankee gets picked the Yankees are off limits for the rest of those two rounds). If you draft a veteran, you get them on the same contract they were on. If you draft a cost-controlled player they stay on the salary schedule as before. If you draft a minor leaguer they stay a minor leaguer.
2. Teams protect 3 more players from what's left of their original team. We complete 2 more rounds, same rules apply (no more than 3 players lost from any given team). We can randomly select the draft order for these two rounds so that it's different from the first two, but still snake-style.
3. Repeat: Protect 3 more. 2 more rounds.
4. One last time: Protect 3 more. 2 more rounds. After this round teams will have 25 players (8+3+3+3 = 17 protected from their original team, 2+2+2+2 = 8 from the draft)
5. All remaining undrafted major leaguers stay with their teams. All remaining minor leaguers go into the amateur draft pool.
6. Teams can use the amnesty clause to cut one undesirable veteran contract with no strings attached.
7. Amateur Draft - 12 rounds maybe? - the 2020 draft class plus any other minor leaguers who are now unowned after step 5. This is followed by post-draft adds. Max roster size = 60 players.
Last Edit: Jun 24, 2020 17:24:17 GMT -5 by Ben (Rays GM)
Post by Matteson (Giants GM) on Jun 24, 2020 19:25:54 GMT -5
I'm in for whatever happens. I like a lot of the suggestions above. As someone who has worked hard on overhauling a farm system, I do like the idea of being able to keep some guys on the event of a restart.
Post by Kevin (Rangers GM) on Jun 24, 2020 19:30:23 GMT -5
Well first Off I like to say good luck to Ben moving forward! Ben help me out once I singed up for this league awhile ago! I like to keep the league as is because I have worked hard to build up my prospects system over the last few years and I felt be for the Coivd shit happen my team would been on the upward trend.... That being said I love playing fantasy Baseball with all you guys over the years of pro gm... Either way I hope this league continuous to run strong over the next 10 years or so... I look forward to this league out of all my other Fantasy Baseball leagues.... Cheers Rangers Gm Kevin
Post by Zack (Mariners GM) on Jun 29, 2020 10:01:36 GMT -5
I quite like a lot of the ideas that Ben put forth. Particularly the more "radical" ones in his initial proposal.
If we were to move forward with some or all of those, would we essentially "skip" the 2020 fantasy season? Personally, I think I'd be on board with that. Since its going to be an extremely shortened season (and might not even finish if COVID re-spikes in a big way), it probably makes sense to proceed with these large-scale changes with an eye toward re-starting for the 2021 season. Is that generally what you guys are thinking? Or is there a way for us to play the 2020 fantasy season while still making these talent redistributions?
I quite like a lot of the ideas that Ben put forth. Particularly the more "radical" ones in his initial proposal.
If we were to move forward with some or all of those, would we essentially "skip" the 2020 fantasy season? Personally, I think I'd be on board with that. Since its going to be an extremely shortened season (and might not even finish if COVID re-spikes in a big way), it probably makes sense to proceed with these large-scale changes with an eye toward re-starting for the 2021 season. Is that generally what you guys are thinking? Or is there a way for us to play the 2020 fantasy season while still making these talent redistributions?
At this point, I think talent redistribution will happen in some fashion, and will be geared towards the 2021 season. We may still run the yahoo leagues in 2020 just for fun (this hasn't been decided yet), but the majority of our focus is on improving the league for a hopefully full season in 2021. Also, there will DEFINITELY be a 2020 amateur draft, details tbd.
